Where Our Ancestors were in 1808

Several weeks ago I wrote a post entitled “1808: Where was Your Family 200 Years Ago?” I wrote about my ancestors lives two hundred years ago, at least the ones that I know for sure who lived in Bavaria. This topic was inspired by the previous challenge from Lisa of 100 Years in America who asked us where our ancestors were in 1908 (read the summary here). I challenged other genea-bloggers to take up the challenge, and many did. Here are their wonderful responses:

In “1808: Residences of My Families” Lori at Smoky Mountain Family Historian tells us about her family all over the US, mostly in the South with scattered folks in New England, Ohio, and Pennsylvania. All of her ancestors were in the US 200 years ago! What impressed me the most is her distinctly American genealogy!

John at Transylvania Dutch uses a “Time Machine” to visit his ancestors in several countries including Lithuania, Poland, Transylvania, Canada, and England. Then, just in case the question is asked by other bloggers, he takes us back to visit his ancestors in New York in 1708, and back to Holland and England in 1608. Does he know where they were in 1508? Hmm, read his story to find out!

Jessica at Jessica’s Genejournal asks “1808: Where were my ancestors?” She admits to being “not completely sure”, but she’s getting close with research back to the 1820s.

Thomas at Destination: Austin Family asks “1808: Where was my family 200 years ago?” Well, Thomas definitely knows the answer to that question: New York!

Randy at Genea-Musings knows where so many of his ancestors were in 1808 that he had to write two posts to tell the whole story. His Carringer side resided in many places, including the US, Canada, and England while the Seaver side calls Massachusetts, Rhode Island, and England home.

Becky at kinexxions asks “Where were they in 1808?” Rather than list all 59 ancestors on her mother’s side and 23 on her father’s, she gives us some interesting highlights. All but three of her ancestral families were already in the United States, and most were farmers. Becky shares some interesting stories about some of these ancestors in 1808.

“Where were they in 1808” is what Bill at West in New England explains in his post, which has quite a mix of both known whereabouts and elusive folks.

Craig at Geneablogie also asks “Where were they in 1808?” He writes about the importance of that particular year for many of his families: “1808 was a signal year…That was the year that Congress banned the Atlantic slave trade from the United States.”

Tonia at Tonia’s Roots Blog has many ancestors around in 1808, so she’s writing a series of posts. So far, she recounts her “Butler Ancestors in 1808” “almost all of whom were in the western part of North Carolina, with a few in South Carolina and one in Virginia.”

“Sharon” responded in the comments of my post about her Bavarian, Polish, American, and Dutch ancestors that all eventually wound up in Chicago.

Steve from Steve’s Genealogy Blog writes “The Year was 1808” about his Polish ancestors who were scattered throughout the land including the “Przemyśl Powiat of Galicia, the Warsaw Departament of the Duchy of Warsaw, and the Vilna Guberniya of the Russian Empire.” Steve adds a nice visual with “Map My DNA” to show us where these places are on the map.

Steve’s fancy map was inspired by John at Anglo-Celtic Connections, who asks “Where has your DNA been?” John shows us his ancestors’ whereabouts in both 1808 and 1908.

Blaine at The Genetic Genealogist also asks “Where Was My Y-DNA and mtDNA in 1808?” and proceeds to show us on the map! He presents this graphical challenge “Where was YOUR mtDNA and Y-DNA in 1808?”

Thanks to everyone who contributed to this challenge – it was fascinating to see how far folks can trace their ancestry and from what areas their ancestors originated. As someone with 20th Century immigrants to America on all sides of my ancestry, I was quite impressed with the number of fellow bloggers who have what I call “American” roots! It was equally fascinating to see the mix of countries that we are all researching. If anyone responded to my 1808 challenge and I didn’t present your response here, please let me know or comment here – I tried to include all that I could find!


1808: Where was your family 200 years ago?

In a post earlier this month, Lisa at 100 Years in America posed an interesting New Year challenge to other genea-bloggers: Where was your family in 1908? Several bloggers answered the challenge, including myself. Before I could list a round-up here, Lisa did it herself in this post entitled “Snapshots of the World Back in 1908”.

Why, it was almost like an interim carnival of genealogy! The many answers to that one question offered a fascinating glimpse, or a snapshot to steal Lisa’s description, into our ancestors’ lives one hundred years ago. Which caused me to wonder – just how far back do we all go? Do we know where our ancestors were two hundred years ago? So, now I pose this challenge to myself and anyone else who wants to answer the call: Where was your family in 1808?

In 1808, none of my ancestors were in the United States, which was only 32 years old! My own ancestors come from Poland and Germany, but they didn’t arrive in the US until the early 20th Century… Just to put things into an historical perspective, neither country actually existed as a country back in 1808! For that matter, Poland didn’t really exist in 1908 either. As a country, Poland disappeared from the map of Europe for 123 years beginning in 1795 and ending with the First World War. The area was divided through various “partitions” among Poland’s powerful neighbors: Russia, Austria, and Prussia (Germany). My family comes from the areas that belonged to both Prussia and Russia. Unfortunately, I don’t know specifics about my Polish ancestors in 1808 – not because I’ve hit a “brick wall” in my research, but I just haven’t had the time to research beyond the 1820s-1850s. The films are available for quite a few years beyond that, so I hope to go back further when I take a research trip to Salt Lake City later this year. One important note about Poland in 1808: Prussia ceded some territory after being defeated by Napoleon, and the Grand Duchy of Warsaw was formed in 1807. It would only last until 1815, but there were roughly 2.4 million inhabitants who could call themselves part of a mostly independent Polish state. But more importantly for genealogists, the Napoleonic Code was introduced in 1808 which mandated civil registration! Many of the records available today begin in the year 1808.

In 1808, Germany was a collection of duchies and independent states; the nation as we know it today was not unified until 1871. This is one of the reasons that I usually refer to my ancestors as “Bavarian” in lieu of “German”. In 1808, I know a lot about my Bavarian ancestors and the towns in which they lived. To set the stage, I’d like to give a little bit of the area’s history. Around 1799-1800, Bavaria was occupied by both the French and the Austrians as loyalties and friends and enemies were shuffled. In 1801, an edict of religious tolerance was declared – the area remains predominantly Catholic, but all faiths were welcome to live there. In 1802, a law was passed for mandatory elementary education. In 1806, Bavaria joined the Confederation of the Rhine under Napoleon (he sure got around, didn’t he?), and Bavaria became the Kingdom of Bavaria under the leadership of King Maximilian I. Bavaria was a unified state that abolished many of the privileges of the nobility and the clergy, and in 1808 they adopted a constitution that was fairly ahead of its time with regard to an individual’s rights. The population of Bavaria in 1808 was about 3.2 million.

My Bergmeister family was not yet in the “big” town of Pfaffenhofen an der Ilm, and they lived in a rather small town nearby called Puch in “house #17”. My fourth great-grandparents were Joseph Bergmeister (1763-1840) and Kreszens Zinsmeister (1777-1852). What I find amazing is their life-spans – he lived until the age of 77 and she lived until 75, which far exceeded their later descendents who lived in more modern times. Joseph was a miller like his father before him and his sons after. The couple married in the year 1800 and would go on to have twelve children from 1800-1816. At least two children, probably more, died as infants. My third great-grandfather was their son Jakob Bergmeister, who was born on 20 March 1805. In 1808, he was only three years old and his parents were probably very happy – for if a child lived until that age, they would most likely reach adulthood. Jakob’s future wife, Anna Maria Daniel, would not be born until 1812. Jakob would live until the year 1870 and the couple would have fifteen children in nineteen years. Anna Maria was 24 when she started having babies and 43 when she stopped…no wonder she died at the age of 59!

Pfaffenhofen in 1830

My great-grandmother’s side of the family lived in Pfaffenhofen an der Ilm, which was considered a large “market town” even then. In 1808, it was officially formed as a “municipality”, but since the town existed since the 1300’s I haven’t quite figured out what that designation means. According to a book about the town, in 1811 (close enough), the town had 1,585 Catholics and 1 Lutheran (there would eventually be more since a Lutheran church would later be built). Living in “house #55, which later becomes the address of Löwenstraße, was the Echerer family. My fourth great-grandfather Ignaz Echerer (1765-?) was a fourth generation shoemaker married to Maria Kaillinger (1768-?), a glassmaker’s daughter. Of their eight children, my third great-grandfather was Ignaz who was born on 21 December 1803. He’ll become a fifth generation shoemaker and live until the age of 71. There were apparently nine shoemakers in Pfaffenhofen shortly before 1808, and based on what I’ve seen in the church records every one was probably an Echerer brother or cousin.

Ignaz’s future wife, Magdalena Nigg, was born on 17 May 1807 to Karl Nigg (1767-1844) and Maria Theresia Höck (1769-post 1814). Karl held a very important position in Pfaffenhofen as the Stadtzimmermeister or the Town Master Carpenter.  His father was the Stadtmaurermeister, or the Town Master Mason, and his father-in-law was a zimmermeister or Master Carpenter. Karl and Maria would have eleven children from 1795-1814.

That’s just a small look into the lives of a few of my ancestors two hundred years ago. We can’t tell much from a collection of names and dates, but with the help of some history books we are able to imagine what life might have been like. Where was your family in 1808?

1908: Where was your family?

The idea for a second post came easily enough after reading Lisa’s recent post at 100 Years in America. Inspired after reading a Smithsonian magazine article on the year 1908, she writes about what her ancestors were doing in that year and challenges others to do the same. What a great idea, and a nice way to get my feet wet with this blog. Plus, in order to write about it I’m actually forced to organize my research (or rather, a mess of paper) to answer the question! [Photo of St. Peter’s RC Church, Philadelphia, where my Bergmeister family worshiped.] St. Peter's Church, Philadelphia

For my Bergmeister family, 1908 was probably a very busy year since the household consisted of four children under the age of ten. My grandmother was not among them though – she would not be born for another five years! Thirty-five year-old Joseph had been in the US for ten years by this time, and wife Maria and daughter Maria for eight. By 1908, he was working as a baker in Philadelphia. How different that was from working as a baker in his native Pfaffenhofen an der Ilm is anyone’s guess. Although his father was deceased and his mother was far away in Germany, Joseph wasn’t far from his immediate family because his sister Hillarie emigrated to Philadelphia first. Besides Hillarie, brother Ignatz was living in New Jersey, and half-brother Julius Goetz had just arrived in Philadelphia.

With the Piontkowski’s, my grandfather was a couple of years away from birth, and since his parents John and Rose were in their late 30s he probably wasn’t even a thought for the future. They had their hands full with a 5-year-old boy and a 3-year-old girl, both of whom were born in Poland. John and Rose were probably still getting used to America because they had only arrived 2-3 years earlier. It was probably quite a challenge to learn a new language, but I’m sure that Philadelphia was as bustling as their old home town, Warsaw, Poland.

The Zawodny family had been in the US for about six years. Their family was growing and would eventually include six children. But in 1908, my great-grandparents Joseph and Wacława had three young girls at home – all under the age of four. This includes my grandmother Marianna, who was only born the previous August. Even though she was an infant, I’d like to think she was already bossing her big sisters around. Marianna Zawodna is my only grandparent that was alive in the year 1908.

The Pater family was just getting settled in the US. Joseph and Antonina arrived with their six children in various stages from 1905 through 1907. Their son Ludwig, or Louis, is one of my youngest great-grandparents and was only 15 years old that year. He was already hard at work in one of the textile mills in Philadelphia, not far removed from the family’s recent past in the textile town of Żyrardów, Poland. He may have even been awaiting the arrival of his future wife, Elżbieta Miller, since she came from the same town. Since the facts show that he arrived as a young teenager in 1907, she arrived in 1909, and they were married in 1910, it’s plausible that they already knew each other. But in 1908, 17-year-old Elżbieta was still living in Żyrardów with her parents. Her brother Emil, however, was already in Philadelphia for three years, and one can only wonder if they exchanged letters across the Atlantic.

One hundred years…a lot can happen in a century. The world has certainly changed a great deal in that time. And in just that short amount of time, four immigrant families came to a new world, had children of their own, worked, laughed, cried, lived, and died. Their legacies include hundreds of descendants, and I count myself lucky to be among them.